The Long Way Podcast

The Long Way Podcast offers short episodes with long perspectives on building the common good. We touch on many topics including politics, society, faith, media. We promise to be thoughtful, not reactionary, and to focus on the perspectives and big issues that matter most to you.

Host Daniel Proussalidis taps into his 16-plus years as a journalist to welcome a new guest to each episode of The Long Way, discussing questions of living together well and building a flourishing society. Long-time journalist and Cardus Senior Fellow Peter Stockland provides field reports of on-the-ground perspectives.

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Current Season - Season 4

S4E3: Work Barriers for People with Disabilities

Featured Guests: Rabia Khedr, National Director – Disability Without Poverty, and Brian Dijkema, Vice-President of External Affairs – Cardus

Canada needs to break down the barriers that stop people with disabilities from getting good jobs. Think-tank Cardus has released a landmark report, Breaking Down Work Barriers for People with Disabilities. It challenges decision-makers to move beyond an emphasis on income assistance to close the employment gap that too many Canadians face because of a disability.

S4E2: Special Episode: How Far Does Religious Freedom Go in Canada?

Featured Guests: Father Deacon Andrew Bennett, Director of Cardus Religious Freedom and Faith Community Engagement, and Kristopher Kinsinger, a Cardus NextGEN Fellow, an Ontario lawyer, and the National Director of the Runnymede Society

In this special podcast episode, we’re asking how far religious freedom goes as we dive into the controversial issue of limits on religious freedom in Canada. How well have authorities upheld religious freedom in Canada during the pandemic? How well have religious communities understood and exercised religious freedom?

S4E1: Special Episode: Vaccine Passports in Ontario

Featured Guests: Lisa Richmond, Vice-President of Research – Cardus & Brian Dijkema, Vice-President of External Affairs – Cardus

Join us on The Long Way podcast as we explore the efficacy of vaccine passports in Ontario, how Cardus conducts its research and why we chose to write an open letter to Premier Doug Ford challenging the vaccine passport system.

Season 3

S3E9: Better Political Journalism in Canada

Featured Guest: Prof. Lydia Miljan

For the final Season 3 episode of The Long Way, we return to the theme of news media bias in Canada and getting better journalism. We can accept from the outset that there aren’t any easy answers. But we can at least make progress toward understanding what is going on in the world of journalism today while hoping to see a better end product. Among the various aspects of journalism we examine is the way political news media handle the sharing of opinions – something our feature guest, Prof. Lydia Miljan from the University of Windsor, addresses on the podcast. You’ll also hear references to journalist Andrew Coyne as well as to Bill C-10 on federal government regulation of the internet and social media (with all the related free speech concerns).

S3E8: Indigenous Reconciliation in Canada

Featured Guest: Melissa Mbarki — Policy Analyst in the Indigenous Policy Program at the Macdonald-Laurier Institute (MLI) and an Indigenous woman from Treaty 4 in Saskatchewan

Reconciliation is a bigger topic than one episode of The Long Way podcast can cover, but this episode starts down that road. We do so starting from the premise that reconciliation – the restoration of a relationship – is necessary. For one thing, it’s a simple recognition of the human dignity we all bear, Indigenous or not. For another, it’s a step toward healing from past injustices and moving toward a better Canada.Listen for Melissa Mbarki’s insights on what Indigenous reconciliation looks like on the ground from her point of view. You won’t hear much high-sounding rhetoric or calls for grand gestures. However, you will hear a very practical description of what needs to change and what role natural resources development plays in this issue. One issue that really comes through in our conversation involves the benefits of work beyond earning a paycheque. That’s something think tank Cardus has studied extensively. To learn more, check out Fuelling Canada’s Middle Class and Work is About More Than Money.

S3E7: Free Speech and Broadcast Regulations

Featured Guest: Michael Geist, a University of Ottawa professor and the Canada Research Chair in Internet and E-Commerce Law

The controversy around Bill C-10 stems from its broad reach to bring internet streaming services under the regulatory control of Canada’s broadcast regulator, the CRTC. That was controversial enough, but the recent move to take away the exemption for social media and content uploaded by individuals really got people talking. So, The Long Way has gone right to one of the experts in the field to get the low-down on what is wrong with Bill C-10 and why it should matter to all of us.

S3E6: Federal Budget 2021

Featured Guests: Andrea Mrozek, a senior fellow in family research at think tank Cardus and Brian Dijkema, vice-president of external affairs at Cardus

There are many memorable lines from the movie The Princess Bride. But one especially notable line is the following: “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” The word in question? Feminist. The federal government has introduced its first budget in two years, calling Budget 2021 a “feminist” budget especially because of its promised national daycare system. But that “feminist” label doesn’t make sense to one of our feature guests, Andrea Mrozek, a senior fellow in family research at think tank Cardus.

Together with Brian Dijkema, vice-president of external affairs at Cardus, we analyze key parts of Budget 2021 – like child care and new measures related to the charitable sector – while also examining some of the cultural questions the budget raises.

S3E5: Social Trust, Pluralism, and Democracy

Featured Guests: Sean Speer, Editor-at-Large of The Hub and Pat Kambhampati, Associate Professor in McGill University’s Department of Chemistry

Trust and social solidarity seem to be commodities in short supply these days. New polling suggests not just declining institutional trust among Canadians, but an undercurrent of anger that threatens our democratic life. That’s according to data published by The Hub, a new Canadian media outlet, which focuses on the work of think tanks and public policy. Sean Speer, Editor-at-Large of The Hub, says it’s shocking that 77 percent of Canadians say they’re angry about what’s going on in their country. And while Speer makes a plea for true, deep, respectful pluralism across all divides in Canada, we also hear a plea for academic freedom in this episode. Pat Kambhampati, Associate Professor in McGill University’s Department of Chemistry, speaks with field reporter Peter Stockland about growing concerns about academic freedom among those involved in science, technology, engineering and mathematics.

S3E4: Limits of Religious Freedom

Featured Guests: Carissima Mathen, law professor at the University of Ottawa, and Fr. Dn. Andrew Bennett, director of the Cardus Religious Freedom Institute

You’ve seen the stories and you’re read the news about COVID public health orders that haven’t gone down very well with some faith communities. There have been charges, fines, and at least one arrest as a result. Alberta pastor James Coates is probably one of the better-known cases that’s caused a fair bit of controversy. So, it’s time to sit down and talk about it – and explore the limits of religious freedom in Canada and the contours around this important concept. That’s what we do on this episode of The Long Way with our special guests, Prof. Carissima Mathen and Fr. Dn. Andrew Bennett. We start things off with field reporter Peter Stockland sharing the story of Pastor Rob Schouten from Aldergrove Canadian Reformed Church in B.C.’s Fraser Valley.

S3E3: Free Speech in a Toxic Culture

Featured Guest: Danielle Smith, a journalist and commentator based in High River, Alberta

Free speech in a toxic culture – communicating across political divides – these are among the biggest challenges of our times. It’s not just a problem in the United States. It’s a problem in Canada too.

In this episode, Smith explains why she gave up a successful radio show on AM770 in Calgary and said goodbye to thousands of Twitter followers earlier in 2021. If you want to know more about what Smith does next in her media career, she’s sure to post it on

Also in this episode, field reporter Peter Stockland brings us the story of a very accomplished journalist, Brian Kappler, who hasn’t given up on social media but has put it on a strict diet. Plus, you won’t want to miss Kappler’s thoughts on what he calls “junk journalism” in Canada. And somehow, Peter managed to shoehorn in a reference to Tom Brady in their conversation.

S3E2: What do we learn from board games during a pandemic?

Featured Guest: Jonathan Kay, a Toronto-based editor and podcaster for Quillette, a National Post columnist, and a book author. In 2019, he published “Your Move: What Board Games Teach Us about Life,” co-authored with Joan Moriarity.

Board games are seeing a surge in popularity as the disruptions of COVID-19 drag on far longer than any of us would like. Not a board game fan? Don’t knock it ‘til you’ve tried it says The Long Way’s feature guest, Jonathan Kay. Also in this podcast episode, you’ll hear from our field reporter Peter Stockland who has a word-play and game-play filled conversation with Ray Pennings, executive vice-president of think tank Cardus, about his experience in the world of games.

S3E1: Media Bias and False Balance

Featured Guest: Andrew Coyne, Globe & Mail columnist and CBC At Issue panel member

Media bias, false balance in journalism, free speech, and social media – all these issues touch upon how we communicate, learn about each other, and build social trust. The picture becomes even more complicated when the Edelman Trust Barometer finds that trust in Canadian media is down to its lowest level in a decade. How do we communicate when we so profoundly disagree with each other on so many issues? Or when we don’t trust what we get from the media? That’s what our special guest Andrew Coyne, Globe & Mail columnist and CBC At Issue panel member, addresses with host Daniel Proussalidis on this episode of The Long Way Podcast.

Following Daniel’s conversation with Andrew Coyne, The Long Way examines one of the proposed solutions to toxic talk – especially in social media: government regulation. How reasonable a solution is that? Field reporter Peter Stockland addresses that question with Peter Menzies, a former vice-chair of the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission.

Season Two

S2E5: Restorative Justice

Featured Guest: Stacey Campbell, President and CEO of Prison Fellowship Canada

Have you ever considered the concept of restorative justice? Have you heard stories of reconciliation or restoration of peace between someone who has committed a crime and a victim of crime? The Long Way podcast will bring you some of those stories in this episode along with some information about who to get involved in helping those who are incarcerated in Canada maintain relationships with their families outside of prison.

S2E4: Systemic Racism

Featured Guest: Ian Rowe, a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute

COVID-19 isn’t the only thing that will go down in history as a marked feature of 2020. Racism and the fight against this evil has also made its mark on the year in Canada and the United States. How do we respond to news about systemic racism and what can we do that contributes to the common good and seeks justice? That’s what we ask our special guest, Ian Rowe, a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

S2E3: Are We Fine with the 9-5?

Featured Guests: Dr. Erica Carleton, Professor of Organizational Behaviour at the University of Saskatchewan, and Brian Dijkema, Vice President of External Affairs at Cardus

Work lives have changed because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Working from home has become the norm for many of us. And some are musing again about four-day work weeks. In this episode of The Long Way, we explore the changing nature of work with Dr. Erica Carleton, Professor of Organizational Behaviour at the University of Saskatchewan, and Brian Dijkema, Vice President of External Affairs at Cardus.

S2E2: Truth or Dare

Featured Guest: Jen Gerson, Canadian journalist

Journalism is about telling the truth, right? Or is it about correcting injustices? Jen Gerson, a Canadian journalist who left regular, paid work in the media to strike out as an independent and outspoken writer and podcaster, has a definite perspective on such questions. She shares her thoughts with The Long Way as we consider the issue of how to do journalism in the unstable and constantly shifting media industry.

S2E1: The Hidden Economy

Featured Guest: Dr. Brian Grim, President and Founder of the Religious Freedom & Business Foundation

Amid pandemic-related job loss and economic worries, new research suggests there is a sector of Canadian society that plays an important, but often unrecognized, economic role: religion.

The Hidden Economy: How Faith Helps Fuel Canada’s GDP, a new report from think tank Cardus, finds that religion’s annual contribution to Canadian society is worthy an estimated $67.5 billion. In this episode of The Long Way podcast, we’ll hear from Dr. Brian Grim, a co-author of the study as well as President and Founder of the Religious Freedom & Business Foundation.

Season One

S1E6: From Surviving to Thriving

Featured Guest: Ashley Challinor, Vice-President of Policy at the Ontario Chamber of Commerce

When the economy falls apart, other aspects of society are sure to follow. So, how do you rebuild an economy shattered by a long shutdown? Ashley Challinor, Vice-President of Policy at the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, sheds some light on that question. And then she delves into a related issue: The charitable sector. The business community and charity are tied together, after all, so in helping one, can we help the other too?

S1E5: Shaken Foundations

Featured Guest: Jamil Jivani, author of Why Young Men, Ontario’s Advocate for Community Opportunities, and managing director of Road Home Research & Analysis

Who is falling through the cracks as pandemic lockdowns drag on? Whom have we forgotten?

Jamil Jivani reminds us of those who face extra challenges in life, especially when isolated by a lockdown. With his background as the author of Why Young Men, Ontario’s Advocate for Community Opportunities, and managing director of Road Home Research & Analysis, Jamil explains the inequality we’ll need to tackle in rebuilding post-pandemic Canada. And field reporter Peter Stockland highlights another aspect of inequality – in education – with Cardus Education Director David Hunt.

S1E4: Do the Right Thing

Featured Guest: Dr. Margaret Somerville, a bioethics professor at the School of Medicine of the University of Notre Dame Australia

Life is full of ethical dilemmas – something that’s only made worse by a pandemic.

Conscience, ethics, and morals all come into play when hospital resources become strained. But it’s not just the doctors and nurses making hard calls. Everyone is making ethical judgements about lockdown life: whether self or the common good gets prime consideration.

What does our “moral community” look like? Do we need to rebuild our understanding of ethics? Listen in as Dr. Margaret Somerville, a bioethics professor at the School of Medicine of the University of Notre Dame Australia, joins conversation on The Long Way podcast.

S1E3: Faith, Trust, and Pixie Dust

Featured Guests: David Ryan, Edelman Canada’s Executive Vice-President of Corporate and Financial Communications, and Michael Van Pelt, President and CEO of Cardus

Trust is not in short supply in Canada – at least not when it comes to trust in government.

Trust levels have skyrocketed during the pandemic according to the Edelman Trust Barometer. But is it a case of easy come, easy go? And will that trust lead to the government displacing other social institutions in the future? That’s what David Ryan, Edelman Canada’s executive vice-president of corporate and financial communications, and Michael Van Pelt, president and CEO of Cardus discuss. Then listen in as field reporter Peter Stockland looks at a political controversy that could put trust in government to the test.

S1E2: Oh Happy Day!

Featured Guest: Arthur Brooks, Professor of the Practice of Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and former president of the American Enterprise Institute

Happy during a pandemic lock-down? It’s possible. Arthur Brooks, Professor of the Practice of Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and former president of the American Enterprise Institute explains how. Actually, he’s a podcaster himself through The Art of Happiness. But if that’s not enough to put a smile on your face, then listen to how he expresses hope that post-pandemic we’ll see less tribalism and political polarization. That ought to do it.

S1E1: Fortitude and Fragility

Featured Guest: Shachi Kurl, Executive Director of the Angus Reid Institute

“A combination of worry and gratitude” – That’s how Shachi Kurl, the executive director of the Angus Reid Institute, describes Canadian attitudes during the 2020 coronavirus pandemic.

Shachi provides the data to paint the big picture of the current Canadian mood, while Ray Pennings, executive vice-president of Cardus, examines what possible long-term changes in attitudes the pandemic could bring. Field reporter Peter Stockland gives an uplifting story about the revival of service clubs amidst the pandemic.

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Young professionals holding hands and seated facing a sunset

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